Expectations

[WizardsGM]

The rules do strictly say, "No tanking." But, what is tanking? Is it purposefully fielding a shitty roster for a high pick, or is it the intended meaning (no sabotaging a lineup for the benefit of draft odds)? I voted yes for the rule change, but maybe the overall result of the poll is telling. I think some form of change is needed. The purpose of the Celtics' Boston (T)ank Party was to eliminate the 10/20 effect that Lou brought up in WhatsApp last night; 10 of the same GMs competing every year while 20 kick the can down the sidewalk, so to speak. I think four GMs with totally different personalities, such as Chris, Jeff, Lou, Todd (that was an extremely random, but effective grouping) could get together at the end of each season and issue strikes if there's anything concerning going on. This wouldn't be a threat, but it would in some ways protect the landscape of the league. Chris, you asked for opinions, so just let me know what you all think.

[MagicGM]

There's no way we can enforce the purposefully shielding a shitty roster for a high pick. That's a legitimate strategy. 

I don't like the issuing strikes for tanking thing and I doubt anyone else would go for it either.  What would the penalty be? Why would it have any teeth?  After the season it's a slap on the wrist.

[BucksGM]

No one will go for any rule change lol so don't even bother thinking of any

[AsstRapsGM]

Alright, my long awaited take on all this..  

First off, this is being directed at specific GMs, whether anyone wants to say it or not. It's pretty obvious, and skirting around the issue only adds to the hostility of it all. The fact that people can be outraged over the fact that something is trying to be implemented to make them try is ridiculous though. I guarantee you even if you are the most incompetent GM out there, if you're trying to win you would NEVER hit the threshold that is trying to be set. This is to stop blatant losing, not people who just haven't figured it out yet.

All we do is babysit GMs, and every rule/change we've done for the last 30 seasons is to make the lives of everyone easier. God forbid something is trying to be put in that makes you try to win, how crazy is that notion?

That being said, this league is split into factions anyways. Every vote is always going to be split down the middle. The bigger issue here is the disconnect between the people who consistently try to win (let's call them the try hards), and the people who laugh it all up and call it just a fun little game they play. While the league is divided improvement will never happen. I'm as guilty as the next person on this, but I can see how both sides can't stand the attitudes of the others. Fix this, and maybe we can find some common ground.

I'm not voting on this, because frankly I couldn't care less either way. The people who want to shove this down people's throats and pretend it's not geared at people are wrong, and the people who are afraid to allow this because then they would actually have to give a shit are wrong too. There's bigger issues in this league, like people hating/resenting other GMs for their choices/lack of choices. Fix that, and maybe this league can go back to being fun.

[BlazersGM]

If this increases the transaction activity, let's do this ASAP. The lack of trades and trade talk lately is horrendous.

[MagicGM]

If this increases the transaction activity, let's do this ASAP. The lack of trades and trade talk lately is horrendous.

Yep.  Something needs to be done.

[CavsGM]

It's always bad during real drafts.

[BucksGM]

If this increases the transaction activity, let's do this ASAP. The lack of trades and trade talk lately is horrendous.

Yep.  Something needs to be done.

If you're not blocking a superstar, it's impossible to get offers on anyone. I feel like a Jehova's Witness. DO YOU HAVE A MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JAMAL FAVRE??? (props to the GMs who've actually messaged me about guys though)

[MagicGM]

It will hopefully pick up a bit after the real draft - teams will look to rebuild fast with their real draft guys.

[OldCelticsGM]

I just the saw the poll, and I almost voted no because of how the question was worded...
I don't want to kick anyone out for poor performance...

What I do want is to set up enhanced anti-tanking rules to reduce the amount of purposeful stripping down of rosters for the purpose of guaranteeing yourself high draft picks (especially when the 'veteran' GMs do this, at the expense of new/learning GMs).  Currently our league rules allow this strategy.

There's nothing wrong with rebuilding through the draft, but this can be done without purposely losing games.  The teams that suck will naturally get the highest picks in the draft and still be able to rebuild that way.  There will always be a team that selects 1st overall (whether they have 20 wins or 32 wins)

This new rule would help to 'simulate' a real life environment where no owner would allow his GM to win 20 games year after year without being fired.  This should not be viewed as the league 'firing' a person (and thats why it should be entirely numbers based, not decided by a committee).  It should be looked at as 'you are still a welcome part of the RBSL but your poor performance and/or bad luck has costs you the job with Team X'.  So simply sign up again and try again with a new team.  Or think of it this way.  Imagine if the exact same parameters were programed into the sim program on day 1.  Imagine after the retirees came up, another screen came up and said the following owners have fired thier GM:  'Boston Celtics'.  It just becomes part of the game and you have to manage through it as best you can.  I would say shit that sucks.   Can I get a new team and try again?  Not the end of the world to me... just part the sim experience.

Maybe there are a couple of people who have already scoped out some GMs and can't wait for them to slip up and be removed, but I highly doubt that there are more than one or two people with that mindset (if any).  I think the majority of the people who like this idea want all 29 GMs to remain part of the league, and just slightly modify people's behavior to be a little more realistic (specifically to make deep/prolonged tank jobs unacceptable, but normal rebuilds should be perfectly acceptable).

[WizardsGM]

I just the saw the poll, and I almost voted no because of how the question was worded...
I don't want to kick anyone out for poor performance...

What I do want is to set up enhanced anti-tanking rules to reduce the amount of purposeful stripping down of rosters for the purpose of guaranteeing yourself high draft picks (especially when the 'veteran' GMs do this, at the expense of new/learning GMs).  Currently our league rules allow this strategy.

There's nothing wrong with rebuilding through the draft, but this can be done without purposely losing games.  The teams that suck will naturally get the highest picks in the draft and still be able to rebuild that way.  There will always be a team that selects 1st overall (whether they have 20 wins or 32 wins)

This new rule would help to 'simulate' a real life environment where no owner would allow his GM to win 20 games year after year without being fired.  This should not be viewed as the league 'firing' a person (and thats why it should be entirely numbers based, not decided by a committee).  It should be looked at as 'you are still a welcome part of the RBSL but your poor performance and/or bad luck has costs you the job with Team X'.  So simply sign up again and try again with a new team.  Or think of it this way.  Imagine if the exact same parameters were programed into the sim program on day 1.  Imagine after the retirees came up, another screen came up and said the following owners have fired thier GM:  'Boston Celtics'.  It just becomes part of the game and you have to manage through it as best you can.  I would say shit that sucks.   Can I get a new team and try again?  Not the end of the world to me... just part the sim experience.

Maybe there are a couple of people who have already scoped out a some GMs and can't wait for them to slip up and be removed, but I highly doubt that there are more than one or two people with that mindset (if any).  I think the majority of the people who like this idea want all 29 GMs to remain part of the league, and just slightly modify people's behavior to be a little more realistic (specifically to make deep/prolonged tank jobs unacceptable, but normal rebuilds should be perfectly acceptable).

Well said.

[BucksGM]

I just the saw the poll, and I almost voted no because of how the question was worded...
I don't want to kick anyone out for poor performance...

What I do want is to set up enhanced anti-tanking rules to reduce the amount of purposeful stripping down of rosters for the purpose of guaranteeing yourself high draft picks (especially when the 'veteran' GMs do this, at the expense of new/learning GMs).  Currently our league rules allow this strategy.

There's nothing wrong with rebuilding through the draft, but this can be done without purposely losing games.  The teams that suck will naturally get the highest picks in the draft and still be able to rebuild that way.  There will always be a team that selects 1st overall (whether they have 20 wins or 32 wins)

This new rule would help to 'simulate' a real life environment where no owner would allow his GM to win 20 games year after year without being fired.  This should not be viewed as the league 'firing' a person (and thats why it should be entirely numbers based, not decided by a committee).  It should be looked at as 'you are still a welcome part of the RBSL but your poor performance and/or bad luck has costs you the job with Team X'.  So simply sign up again and try again with a new team.  Or think of it this way.  Imagine if the exact same parameters were programed into the sim program on day 1.  Imagine after the retirees came up, another screen came up and said the following owners have fired thier GM:  'Boston Celtics'.  It just becomes part of the game and you have to manage through it as best you can.  I would say shit that sucks.   Can I get a new team and try again?  Not the end of the world to me... just part the sim experience.

Maybe there are a couple of people who have already scoped out a some GMs and can't wait for them to slip up and be removed, but I highly doubt that there are more than one or two people with that mindset (if any).  I think the majority of the people who like this idea want all 29 GMs to remain part of the league, and just slightly modify people's behavior to be a little more realistic (specifically to make deep/prolonged tank jobs unacceptable, but normal rebuilds should be perfectly acceptable).

Really well said. There's been so much focus on the "kicking" part of this equation, and the opponents are glossing over that we want to make it really, really, really hard for anyone to ever actually be kicked, imo.

[OldCelticsGM]

If this increases the transaction activity, let's do this ASAP. The lack of trades and trade talk lately is horrendous.

I can guarantee this will help pick up activity, and trades will increase.

-- more teams will desire to win games
-- less teams will be selling off all assets (less fire sales)
-- those that do decide to sell will have more potential trade partners, or more than 1 team bidding on players
-- with more competition, rebuilding teams will get better future assets for their players (not dramatically better but slightly better)
-- more competition for players will also affect the top teams because they will have a harder time picking off rebuilding teams and getting assets very cheap.  Also more teams will be putting an effort in during FA, so less of the rich getting richer through FA.  You will see less teams with .650-.800 winning percentages and less teams with .200 winning percentages as well.

This makes the top spots slightly more attainable if your rebuild goes right, and also means that you have to climb from 30 wins up to 42 wins to make the payoffs rather than climb from 20 wins up to 42.  A much more viable task which will allow more teams to be competitive more often.

[BucksGM]

If this increases the transaction activity, let's do this ASAP. The lack of trades and trade talk lately is horrendous.

I can guarantee this will help pick up activity, and trades will increase.

-- more teams will desire to win games
-- less teams will be selling off all assets (less fire sales)
-- those that do decide to sell will have more potential trade partners, or more than 1 team bidding on players
-- with more competition, rebuilding teams will get better future assets for their players (not dramatically better but slightly better)
-- more competition for players will also affect the top teams because they will have a harder time picking off rebuilding teams and getting assets very cheap.  Also more teams will be putting an effort in during FA, so less of the rich getting richer through FA.  You will see less teams with .650-.800 winning percentages and less teams with .200 winning percentages as well.

This makes the top spots slightly more attainable if your rebuild goes right, and also means that you have to climb from 30 wins up to 42 wins to make the payoffs rather than climb from 20 wins up to 42.  A much more viable task which will allow more teams to be competitive more often.

I know I'm a broken record at this point but I need to keep voicing that I agree so wholeheartedly with Celtics in all of his posts. I really, truly, sincerely believe implementing these rules will make the game better for everyone, and never result in anyone putting in a minimum amount of thought being kicked.

[Alex]

I'm in for cracking down on chronic tankers, it's more realistic as it has been discussed. And based on what's discussed, there's plenty of wiggle room. Worst case scenario hang out until another team becomes available and become the new GM there. Even if a top 5 pick player isn't an instant hall of fame guy, he's still likely to be a starter or super-sub and just the fact that he's able to get a spot on your rotation is worth the top 5 pick....then you look to Free Agency, Cap Management to build around...you don't just say fuck this shit and tank again to gamble at another top 5 guy, chances are you'll get a 10-13th pick and pick up yet another rotation guy. Chronic tanking is worse than rage quitting. I am very aware that I'm pandemically 6-10th in the East, so I finally admitted that I needed a rebuilding year, and still ended up being 10th in the East lol. The "real drafts" and the chronic tankers both work to keep me in my place because it's the two aspects of the sim that can be gamed in unrealistic ways. You want to succeed in RBSL, be a good tanker, or position yourself for the next real player draft....all other strategies suck with the exception of a few instances of luck.

I couldn't even trade very some decent quality guys on my roster this year...for instance 0 offers on Christopher Cho (thanks, but I'll keep him now).